This is a highly personal post :P.. should have been password protected I think. But er, I'm allergic to password protected posts. They annoy me :S. So here goes.
It comes as no surprise that when a girl (esp in the subcontinent) turns above 20, there are a barrage of "talks" and "sight-seeing" that begins in the immediate family. Mostly it begins even before this age, but this is around the average time, this process begins. Now I have no big experiences in this regard. But I do have not very pleasant ones in my bag.
Now I can laugh (and write a post) about one particular incident that happened not that long ago
:D
So basically, a drawing room is the room in the house which is the most decorated. Usually you will find a glass showcase in which delicate ornaments, decoration pieces, and trophies are displayed. This showcase is one important piece of furniture in the house. It is cleaned (dusted) regularly, and is gleaming whenever guests come over in the house. Especially "important guests."
In some houses, the drawing room is even locked, only to be opened when there are guests in the house. Small children are not really allowed in this room -- it is that sacred.
Now our drawing room is a little different. It is by no means spotless and gleaming. But spotless, I mean the table usually has a few magazines, and the blood pressure apparatus strewn around, which we hastily stack up neatly when guests are expected. The best part of the room/furniture layout is such that the main sofa, faces a huge bookcase, that covers the entire width of the room. It's like an explosion of neatly shelved (not so neat to be honest) books.. and books.. and more books. From text books, to reference ones, to my own personal collection of non fiction and a lot smaller set (thank the Lord) of fiction titles. It's my prized possession.. :D
So immediately, anybody who is seated on that main sofa, would view the big bookcase, and on the left, there is a big cupboard, on the top of which, are all my model airplanes, and warplanes, helicopters etc etc etc.
As I said, a little different.
So the drawing room incident. This happened a while back, and left me feeling quite disgruntled. This lady (LD) and her daughter in law (DIL) was coming over for some sight-seeing business and I was supposed to sit and get myself interviewed .. (should have been mutual waisay..). The conversation started quite normally, with me getting myself acquainted with the two kids (who came with the daughter in law). They were cute ones, and I realised only too late that I wasn't supposed to babble away with them -- asking their classes and schools and what not. I was supposed to keep my mouth the heck shut and open it when spoken to. Sigh.
[no regrets there]
DIL: So are you fond of cooking wegaira?
Me: *wondering what comes in wegaira* .. Er, yeah I do. Sometimes. Help out mum mostly.
DIL: *giving me a strange look* Okay so what do you do in your free time?
Me: *all enthusiastic* .. Well I read books.. and I really like to do that...and..
DIL: *interrupts* .. No. I mean... your FREE time..
Me: *a little confused*.. Er, yeah. In my free time, I read books. I have many, as you can see...
DIL: *interrupts again*.. No, I'm not talking about parhai (academics). I mean, what do you do as a hobby!!?
Me: *extremely confused* ... Yeah I was telling you my hobby. It's reading books. I also use the PC a lot. Do stuff online. I have a blo...
DIL: But don't you have any other interests?
Me: *loss for words*.. Er, these two are my main ones. Other than that I don't get any time because I have my studies too.
DIL: *silence*
DIL: So what's your star?
Me: *astonished by the question, and the sincerity with which it was asked* .. Er, Cancer.
DIL: Ohhh
Me: *in all courtesy*... Ap ka kia hay? (whats yours?)
DIL: Leo
Me: *the nitwit!* ...which month is that?
She: *giving me another strange look*....August!!
Me: Oh okay.
The conversation (no surprise) then comprised mostly of silence. LD had just been watching this whole scenario. She didn't speak a word, other than asking me again what I did in my spare time, and I was like lamely trying to twist the reading of books into something interesting, and desperately searching for something interesting I do as a hobby..:S.
I had somehow (why, I dunno) thought that they might ask me "which books?" and "what do you do on the PC?"".. er, that's what you would expect from a software engineer's family. But apparently not.
I have realised one thing at least. There is a huge huge difference (or a gap) between the parents today and their children. The traditional thinking and the traditional way of finding spouses seems to be the only way parents think is the right way. I kinda question that. It's so totally shallow the way this sight-seeing business goes about. Nobody can gain anything really deep about a person by just a drawing room sitting. And me the idiot, since this depth factor holds such importance for me, tried to bring that up in the conversation. Not to be so. I believe I would have been much more interesting, had I struck up a topic on the different masalay (spices) that can be added to make ... er, bihari kebab I think.
There should be some other foolproof way of going about this process. And no, I don't mean dates and stuff. The worst bit is, that any other way devised by the generation of today, seems to be totally wrong to the parent generation.
I will keep up my hunt for answers to this particular dilemma. May Allah Have Mercy on all the girls who have to undergo the drawing room sight-seeing. Ameen.
PS: If I were a guy, I would surely not subject any female on the planet to such idiocy... and probably ban my mum and sisters to do such a thing. Khair, easier said than done.
28 comments:
As Iqbal say
teray aazad bando'n ki, na yeh duniya, na woh duniya
yahan jeenay ki pabandi, wahan marne ki pabandi
@yousuf
Cool. This is one of the few verses of Iqbal I understood without having to run to dictionary for a word, or rather, parents!
:D Nicely put. Thanks for reading.
hmmm.......
There should be some other foolproof way of going about this process. And no, I don't mean dates and stuff.
I know you said date and stuff isn't the right way and to further collaborate this point, empirical evidence doesn't suggest even that to be good enough...the divorce rates go up pretty high in those cases too....One piece of statistics from a random search (http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml) puts it to be one failed marriage in every 2..something similar was said to me from a greek girl who has a boyfriend for 4-6 years (if I rem. correctly) but she wasn't sure about marriage :P....The bright side I see in this is that there is a choice plus somebody else recently commented that no matter what, you never get to know somebody......the most logical that I have seen so far has been having a long list of pertinent questions and being prepared to answer and ask..but again, that generation gap is clearly a problem , true :S...
@Ahmar
I think divorce cases are higher in marriages resullting from "dates and stuff" ....
lol at greek girl's comments :)
BY long list of questions, you remind me of Baba Ali :D:D:D
Sigh. I do wonder if there is any solution to the generation gap.
Thanks for dropping by!
Must have been an interesting conversation :D
I know of a couple of cases personally where the guy isn't really inclined towards this drawing-room-interview method, but their old school mums were hell bent on using this method. The guys never liked it, but had to succumb to mum's pressure. And I don't know how many girls those ladies saw, before selecting one, as if shopping for clothes and discarding what they don't like.
lol i so loathe the paki parent mentality.
If I were a guy, I would surely not subject any female on the planet to such idiocy.
My sentiments too :)
I don't think there is any other 'foolproof' way. I have tried to think a lot about it. But if we posit an essentially segregated society, in which there is little male-female interaction (which would make dating unlikely and frowned upon, and which is what, i presume, you want), then there remains no other way for a family looking for a girl to go and see the girl they have heard about. Obviously, no family would just accept any girl without even meeting her. So, in the setting of an arranged marriage, there has to be some sort of a "meeting". The only question then remains of the manner in which it is conducted. But if the mother in law wants a particular type of wife for her son, then she has the right to question the girl in order to judge the presence or absence of those characteristics she wants in her daughter in law. She is not there to make friends, remember. She is looking for a daughter in law. And by actually entertaining the visits of such a rishta-seeking lady, the girl and her family is tacitly giving the boy's family the approval to be examined in this degrading manner. So, in my view, such a "sight-seeing" becomes almost impossible to avoid in the context of an arranged marriage.
The cases in which it doesn't happen like this is when a marriage happens within a family between two cousins, or between two family friends. There is no "sight-seeing" because the families already know each other. Or when the boy and the girl are already familiar with each other to some extent by virtue of being college mates or something like that, but this latter thing is more of a mixture of love-marriage-arranged-marriage, and not a pure arrange marriage happening in the context of gender segregation that had been assumed.
The thing that can be done is to make the girl's role more active. In this typical sight-seeing, the girl is meant to be purely passive, as if she is on display. If the girl's role in the rishta process is more active, then she won't just be a decoration piece... she can direct the conversation on her own terms, and refuse to take any shit from arrogant old ladies looking for their ideal daughter-in-law. So, perhaps the best advice for girls from me would be, excuse my language: Take no shit. But given how our society expects girls to be submissive and polite and silent, that might just be the biggest offense a girl can commit.
I personally don't want an arranged marriage for myself, and i have a positive view of dating. But well, that's just my personal preference :) Those who want an arranged marriage for themselves, please go ahead.
I hope you don't mind, i posted my above comments on my blog too.
@Anas
Yeah it was :) -- now come to think of it !
And I understand that. I'm sure its much less a hassle to leave these things to the really enthusiastic mum and the sisters and let them choose the girl. Waisay bhe, its a politically correct decision.. :P agay jakar the guy has the comeback in his pocket "Ap hee nay to choose kia thaa" :D
@farooqkay
Lol. Waisay loath is a harsh word. It really works for most of the sections of this society. Think of all the girls who DO know the correct amount/type of masalas to be put in bihari kebabs :D
Its just sucky for the other section of the female population.. and I dare say, they are in minority.
Thanks for dropping by :)
@Awais
I hope you don't mind, i posted my above comments on my blog too.
Course not. Thanks :)
I don't FULLY agree with you when you say that assuming a segregated society, there doesn't remain any other way for the family to "check out" a girl.. although you are right to a very great extent.
See, the family can check out and even interact with a female they want to see, in a completely different way. It might even be done without the girl's knowledge. Which would be pretty much okay, if no idiotic personal questions are asked.
Another thing. By strict segregation (and I do agree to it), I don't think there is any harm in professional interaction :) -- you can get to know a LOT about another person if you work/study together.. and it doesn't (surely) have to get to the point of dating.
Why I think dating is wrong (apart from the religion factor) is that its a little on the degrading side. Kinda like sampling. And if one dates, and rejects (men/women both), then its not very different from the drawing room scenario in which stupid questions are asked, girls are given a number of "once-overs" and then the family leaves, never to be heard of again. In fact, dating leaves quite a number of scars..
And perhaps, the jilted party won't be merrily writing a blog post about it a few weeks down the line .. :D
Thanks for dropping by and the insightful comment :)
PS: I've seen Baba Ali videos in which he talks about a questionnaire that can be sent to the prospective spouse by the partner-seeker. Am not really sure of the success factor of this methodology. But I'm assuming it should work for some, since it did work for Ali. :)
//If I were a guy, I would surely not subject any female on the planet to such idiocy... and probably ban my mum and sisters to do such a thing. Khair, easier said than done.//
I believe it's not that difficult if only people would drop their hypocrisies and start treating others the way they themselves want to be treated.
And I totally agree that there's a big gap between parents and the youth of this generation. This prevalent system of 'arrange marraiges' is simply disgusting!!! I mean...a girl is not a goat you give away without letting it know the next one to own it!!! She's a human and she has every right to make the choice and know pre-handedly the nature of the choice she is making.
I believe a date in the presence of parents would be a perfect solution to it. Like...a general talk about interests etc where at least the two individuals would know that they're not marrying someone who has a personality diametrically opposite to their's.
@Salman
True :) but unfortunately, in this society, its usually this way that if one's daughter is subjected to this daikhna dikhana system, the mum does the exact same thing when hunting for her son's wife. It's a vicious loop really.
The previous system is disgusting, but I repeat, this isn't so for ALL. I know a friend who recently got married :D in this same day, age and computers ... is QUITE tech savvy (hello, she's a fellow engineer!)... and you know what? She never even SAW her husband-to-be before her nikkah..
How's that for a blind , er wedding :P
yeah you're right about a meeting in front of parents. But you know.. parents won't allow this business .. At least most won't.
Thanks for the comment:)
You really should have gotten them started on the best ways of matching your bedsheets with curtains, and colour coordinating your waste paper basket with that. You would have had one heck of a conversation LOL:D:D:D:D
Sis :P.. I don't think I could have stomached that .. :]
But maybe with you around... it might have been possible :P
I understand the whole facade of parents looking out for their children's best interest and their need to follow a certain procedure even though it doesn't make any logical sense. But do you have a choice? As in... what happens if you say no? Would they have a "what's wrong with him" look or a "what's wrong with you" look?
@Sony
True. In my case, parents are firmly against this daikhna dikhana business. But there have been exceptions when THEY couldn't say no :P
And those exceptions are the unpleasant experiences in my bag. But others aren't so lucky. I have a friend, who 'appeared before thousands of people' ... her mother MADE her..
And this parent had no qualms about displaying her daughter like cattle in front of these families. So when parents are SET on something.. its quite hard for the kid to break away and do something on their own.
Thanks for the comment :)
What if a Guy had to go through all this? Yea, in some cases they have to , I had to do it twice failed at first but passed by distinction at second that leads to the most important decision of my life but I am extremely lucky that it is the right one and I also did participate a fair bit in that too.
This was bcoz I didn't allow my mother to go some where for sight-seeing and she is also not that found of.
Another thing I did, after it was almost clear that both sides parents had decided thats it I requested her parents that I want to meet her once in front of them in their home, although they were little worried and reluctant I told them its for the good of their daughter too.
That meeting went so well and smooth and her mother even went to kitchen for an extended period of time with my mother so we can feel bit easy.
All the confusion and uncertenity which was surrounding all this was vanished by those 30 minutes not only for me but when I later ask her about it she said she was much more satisfied after that.
I guess I am lucky that our families are supportive and it all went the right way else it is really hard to find a suitable way for all this.
Bottom line, its our culture we can't change it and we shouldn't and also shouldn't compare it too some Greek or western one too. But once both sides parent are agreed to go ahead about it then they should allow a single face to face meeting between two even in their own presence around before giving a final YES. But of course not before they have made up the mind and don't allow them for dating and stuff. Also parents shouldn't showcase their daughters to each and every sight-seeing application, they should have satisfied themselves first.
As far as knowing a person in those meetings in concerned I don't think it is likely to happen as both person are showcasing their brighter side and they will also be only talking about good things etc, Yes if you are only going for looks then surely you can have a good guess in single meeting but I don't think a only looks matter or looks matter that much.
Then how I get so satisfied in my 30 min meeting? Well (i) I already had a good amount of information about her and family (ii) I was pretty clear about what I am looking for.
If you Guys have a chance for such a meeting, don't make a list of what you are looking for or what you want in her, just think of the most important things You or your family don't want in her and keep it to minimum let say three. As I had couple of things according to my family and my preference which I found she don't have in her so anything else was positive for me. :)
Same is true for girls they have the right to select one with which they are going to spend their remaining life even in their case they have to consider family too as they have to adjust there, right?
@Reverse Swing
Thanks for the insightful comment :) I am glad things worked out this way for you Alhamdulillah, and the fact is, that this face-to-face meeting is perfectly allowed by religion even. So that all the concerns are addressed (as you aptly pointed out, negative concerns eliminated first so that the remaining ones are all positive) :)
Good reading about your experience, and advice. Thanks so very much for dropping by.
But in this kind of a system, wouldn't one partner have to be submissive? It looks to me this can only work if there is an unwritten protocol where one of them "asks" and the other "grants". Its similar to the parent-child psychology, but is understandable because the child is physically and financially dependent on the parent. Is it the same with the submissive partner... which is usually the girl... and to be more generation specific - educated and earning?
I really don't see how an opinionated, intelligent and independent woman can survive in such a system... without actually silencing a big chunk of her personality after the marriage. Or the guy would have to be a complete gem of a person without any agendas :) Which again cancels itself out because they would the first that gets taken... usually in a love marriage. So essentially, the ones who opt for the arrange marriage are the leftovers (the ones with all sorts of stereotypes, gender biases, religion/culture maniac, etc).
So to sum it up, I have a better chance winning the lottery than a girl who's not submissive ending up with a nice guy in an arranged marriage :)
@Sony
Well, I don't see why both parties can't ASK... I mean, it CAN be mutual right? One of them certainly do not have to stay quiet. But what happens is (at least what happened with me) is that the other party consists of older people who are doing the asking. How can you interrupt them and inquire your own queries.. :P
Which again cancels itself out because they would the first that gets taken...
*lote pote with laughter* .. :D:D:D hahahahaha
That's so cute..!
Dunno if that's entirely true or not :D
Arranged marriage only for leftovers? :P.. I would have to think about THAT one before forming an opinion. One thing I do know - we can't be entirely specific and absolute about these things. There are a load of pinks, ... in pink :P
Yeah well, chances are chances. But the individuals can bring about a change, at least within their own families. (um, if they listen to them) :S
Thanks so much for the comment :)
@Uni , I sometime wonder how my case fell into exact right place and went so well that her family who already have 3 other daughters married thinks this was the smoothest case of all. For us it was first as I am eldest and even in close family there aren't any out of family marriages except one or two but still it was a good experience.
And yes religion was my main point and that is why both families were very satisfied that nothing was going against anything.
And thanks for allowing me to say something.
@Sony
I don't think either of the party need to be possessive in much of the cases and for the best of all girl should possibly portray her what she is, if she is hyper active or talkative she should be like that in those meeting so other get a good guess of whats coming up, rather then being blamed latter and
produce un-necessary problems in after marriage life.
Represent what you are and most probably live happily ever after, dream case na? :)
@Uni
Oh im sorry... by the "system" in the beginning I meant the Arrange Marriage phenomenon.... not the ladki dhekna/checking-out-the-girl formality :)
@Reverse Swing
If it fell into the right place, then Alhamdulillah, that's extremely good, and one can never be grateful enough for this thing :)
And no problem. Thanks for the comment :)
@Sony
Arranged marriages are always a gamb;le :D And I believe it takes both parties' compromise to make it happen and make it last well :)
Sorry for misunderstanding. Waisay in a society like ours, opinionated girls aren't much ...uh, liked. Funny part is that the mums-in-law are HECK opinionated :P
Thanks for the comments!
@Reverse Swing
Really now... are you seriously suggesting that the average guy who comes to check out the girl would be interested in her if she has a life of her own? That she's interested in utilizing her education to pursue a career (and I'm not talking inconsequential receptionist/secretary jobs)... point out and correct the mother-in-law if it seems fit... doesn't voluntarily prefer to have a girls-only circle of friends, and occasionally be busy enough to not cook dinner? I dont think so.... at least not any guy who prefers an arranged marriage. Because if he did (be interested in her that is), he wouldn't be sitting there in front of her, and fooling himself into believing she's actually showing him her true self. He would've already found someone (or at least tried) and would not really "prefer" an arranged marriage... simply because he cannot see any benefit in it.
@Uni
Its a little strange that with the smaller things that don't matter issues... like shopping for a dress for example... they go into a shop... check out the selections... price tags... try out a few... and maybe even repeat this with multiple shops, before actually narrowing down to one to buy. And they know for a fact that this dress they purchased is hardly permanent. Yet when it comes to choosing a husband, they're pretty comfortable with a gamble... build their wings after jumping off the bridge sorts. Marriage i think (and them too) is a once in a lifetime thing... so with just taking common sense as a guideline, shouldn't there be more introspection and vigilance while choosing a husband? At least more than choosing a dress? I mean... what am i missing here? What makes the gamble appealing enough to warrant a benefit of a doubt... let alone to go ahead with it, make compromises, make it work, etc?
What's the catch here that I'm missing? Did a mass brainwash happen while I was at the loo? :)
Marriage i think (and them too) is a once in a lifetime thing... so with just taking common sense as a guideline, shouldn't there be more introspection and vigilance while choosing a husband?
Oh of course. Of course. When I talked about a gamble, I meant purely arranged marriages, where it isn't asked .. but the decision is just MADE by the parents of both parties, and nobody minds this arrangement. It happens. A lot. That's a huge gamble.
Choosing a dress example is apt ..:S and sad to say, very true. But going with arranged + one's own choice (as illustratef by Reverse Swing's experience) serves to show that a mixture can prove to be successful :)
And that's the ultimate key, isn't it. Have an arranged one (parents meeting and talking), but keep in my mind your own criteria, and find out yourself (by talking to the lady in question etc) whether the criteria is fulfilled or not.
I guess this approach works pretty much okay. Personally, I think girls and guys determining the said criteria (NOT dating) and figuring out stuff on their own is a little better option. But I'm open to changes on this one because of my inadequate experience.
A very close cousin is going through the torture these days.
It's pretty crazy and degrading.
Nice, thought provoking post. :)
@Komal
Ahan.. :P. It sucks big time. But I'm pretttyy much in the clear now.
For quite some time now. Shukar :D
And thanks! :)
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